Introduction
Directors Sam and David Cutler-Kruetz are newly minted Oscar nominees with their short film A Lien. Recently, I spoke with the pair about their film, the timeliness of the narrative, the collaborative effort between the brothers, and how all this attention just excites them to make more films.
Interview
This interview has been lightly edited for clarity.
Ben Miller:
For starters, congratulations! You can now put the title [Academy Award Nominee] on every business card you have from now on. Obviously, you guys shot this film pre-election and now immigration is at the very forefront of the news cycle. And specifically all over the place these last couple of days. These things happening right now are not a positive, but do you view the timeliness of this story, kind of the reason you guys are kind of in the conversation?
Sam Culter-Kruetz:
You know, it’s funny. When we made this film, these things took such a long time to make, you know, films in general. So I think we ended up, we shot it a year or so ago. More than that. So, it’s funny to watch it gain more kind of relevance in the conversation. And I think it’s our job. It’s simultaneously horrifying and this film was created for this moment as a conversation starter. It’s a place to spark dialogue and create potential, hopefully change if possible. So I guess the moment and the film are 100 percent inextricably linked.
I guess I see that as just a real positive that it’s kind of finding its place. And it’s a negative for the world experience, but like this film has its place right now. And it’s most effective as a piece of art in this moment. David and I, when we think about just ourselves as filmmakers, and artists, we think it’s it’s our role in society or whatever, if you will, from a very kind of philosophical perspective to be people who are who are in tune with it with the zeitgeist. Sort of soaking that up and finding ways to to kind of recrystallize it form into something that you can kind of put out in front of a viewer in front of a person and say, “Hey, look at this. Experience this.”
Sam Culter-Kruetz (cont.):
We are all bombarded daily with statistics and news articles, and we live in an overwhelming time that has never existed in the history of the earth or whatever. So, I think it’s our job to try to distill the essence and create empathy machines that make people engage with the topics at hand and the news that we experience daily. We should try to find a way to cut through the noise and filter out all the chatter.
Have you had an emotional experience that can put you in the shoes of somebody else’s world that’s happening right now as you speak? So I think the timeliness of the moment and the film while, in certain ways, the film is ready to meet its moment. And I think that feels satisfying to us. As artists and also as people who care about what the future of the country looks like and how this film can kind of influence that dialogue.
David Cutler-Kruetz:
But I think I would just add to it that as much as you can look at it through that philosophical lens: Sam, that you’re talking about. I mean, this film came out of it, but it just came about through us having a conversation about immigration in this country and doing a lot of thinking and research in that space and finding ourselves thinking about our family history and just like trying to engage in the space.
And I think we certainly hoped that by the time we made this piece, it wouldn’t be relevant. I think that was certainly our intention, was like, “Man, can we make this thing and hopefully it’s solved, you know?” Unfortunately, it’s in this moment where the film is so linked with what’s happening, but I think certainly, our intention was just simply to try and engage with something that we felt was just inhumane and that we wanted to shed some light on.
Ben Miller:
The film’s only 15 minutes long, but as good as the quality is of the film, I can’t say I’m sitting there like with a level of comfort. It’s just a nonstop pressure boiler of tension and anxiety. I’m going to go on a limb and say that’s probably what you guys are trying to convey to a viewer, but as filmmakers, in the moment, how are you trying to get that across?
David Cutler-Kruetz:
I think one of the things that Sam and I kind of initially identified about the film was: here’s a film about paperwork. How do we make a horror film about paperwork? Yeah, like that’s what this film is, right? I mean, it’s a horror film about, hallways and paperwork; the bureaucracy, the labyrinth that is these buildings. I think for us that was so much where this film was at its core grounded. Where I think we kind of kept coming back to it.
Sam Cutler-Kruetz:
I agree. And I think it’s important. We’re trying to pack a complicated topic into a short film, which is a hard thing to do. And I think in general, we’re trying to make a film that that could kind of be dense and affecting and kind of this kind of like burst that you are immediately drawn into. And then kind of like, chewed up by in some ways. I think the tension was very intentional on our part. And I think, you know, it reflects the story and the moment.
And I think we’ve all been in these kinds of bureaucratic scenarios that are very intense and kind of weirdly, weirdly tense Even people who aren’t in immigration. You’re at TSA or you’re whatever…at the DMV these kinds of weird kind of like oddly complicated and hard scenarios. So I think that’s not what the film’s about exactly, but I think trying to pull in all the references that we as Americans who aren’t going through the immigration process can kind of understand and resonate with this sort of banality, the banal pressures of our kind of like modern life in certain ways…you know, being late to appointments. David Cutler-Kruetz:
It’s a great question. I mean, it’s certainly something that I think Sam and I have. Over the years, it kind of continues to change as we spend more time creating together. But I think one of the things I love about working with Sam and I think it’s integral to our partnership is a space where I don’t think I can ever point to one piece of a film and say: this was my idea, or this was my thing, or this was Sam’s thing.
It feels like we’re constantly building towards “What’s the best story?” What’s the most affecting, effective story? We feel this is a combined vision. I think both of us are pretty different in some ways, so we bring different perspectives into it, but I don’t know if I could pinpoint exactly where those perspectives are super different.
Sam Cutler-Kruetz:
We have to have skill sets for sure. And it’s nice to have each of us point out various things from more of a process/physical perspective and the production of a film from ideas and a tone perspective, from a writing perspective, I think we do all the writing collaboratively…it’s hard. It’s a pain in the ass to do it that way because it’s much faster to just write over here that I’ll write pages one, three, and five and you write pages two, four, and six That seems easy, but for us, and it’s probably faster, but we work very slowly in certain ways and we’re very methodical, but we do kind of build consensus in some ways.
And we try and hold a space in between the two of us where the film lives. It’s sort of out in the air somewhere in between both of us. That is this free space, a space where there isn’t a judgment, where we don’t try and say no a lot. We try and say yes and keep what the little idea fragments that kind of float around our brains don’t get crushed and thrown away. But it gets supported by the other person and explores to its fullest.
We run a lot of rabbit holes about writing that don’t end up seeing the light of day. I think that’s because we sometimes try to work out what the kind of optimal version of something is and the version that makes both of us laugh or cry or gasp or whatever. Then people felt that same thing in the theater that affected both of us.
There’s something here that there’s something gold. We can mine or stick with a vein that we’re working on. And to that point, I think. When we’re working on set, the hardest part about being on set is just you have to make decisions quickly and all that stuff. And so we spend so much time in the writing and development process together making the script and idea so refined that we both just know it down. If you ask one of us a question, you’re going to get the same answer because we’ve already spent a year answering all the questions that we had ourselves. And so that helps us be more efficient and allows us to have a unified vision for the film.
Ben Miller:
The title of the film is an interesting one because when I’m watching these short films, I kind of just dive in. I don’t want to know much about it until I get in there. So I kind of want to feel like. So I knew A Lien, I see the lady in the bureaucracy, and my mind kind of goes to places, then it very quickly comes around. And then A Lien->Alien. Were you trying to kind of keep it under wraps, not necessarily keep it under wraps, because the film, people can look up very easily what the film is about, but I that kind of bureaucracy aspect of the idea of A Lien and the pressure of all that, combined with alien. Where did that kind of come about?
David Cutler-Kruetz:
I don’t know. I think when you think about titles, sometimes they just seem to appear out of somewhere and then I can’t recall. Maybe, Sam, you recall exactly where A Line came from. But I think it was just one of those that when we stumbled on it and it was truly a stumble on the title. Like, what a fascinating phrase or essential wordplay that encompasses the whole story, right?
I mean, in some weird way, it tells the entire story of the movie. And I think it was just one of those that just kept sticking with us. It feels like it encompasses…like, it doesn’t mean anything on the surface, but then after you’ve watched the film, you go back and you’re like, oh, that is the film, right? I mean, it’s bureaucratic, it’s about obligation, and payment and dues. And yet at the same time, It’s also a play of words on ‘alien’ and is split apart. And I mean, it’s the film. So, I think it was just, for us, that’s really where that came from.
Sam Cutler-Kruetz:
Yeah, I think if you look back at our other shorts as well, we like titles that have multiple meanings that can hold more than one thing. And something about that. I don’t know it. We try as best we can, and to varying degrees of success, to infuse the films all the way through with the deepest kind of meaning we can. That sounds very lame, but try to build in stuff, and not like hiding Easter eggs or numerology, but just this idea…although we sometimes do that too. But how do we like to layer in the deepest themes through this thing? And then that translates out to the title. I think, as well, where how is that a reflection of our kind of multi-layered thoughts. And it’s a complicated topic.
Ben Miller:
Okay, big question. Now, it’s been four days [at the time of the interview]. You now both have the title “Academy Award nominee” in front of your names. You get shortlisted. You’re talking yourself into it. You’re trying to temper your expectations. So what was that Friday like for you guys?
Sam Cutler-Kruetz:
I feel like I’ve been in a dead sprint the last four days. Like just insane. I’ve been on back-to-back Zoom calls just for days. I mean, it truly…it’s been amazing. Insane. I’ll see an incredible outpouring of support for us, from our friends and family, for the film, from all over the world has been incredible. Occasionally I’ll go read the Letterboxd reviews and just…it’s just lovely to see people resonating. And obviously, it’s depressing as well.
But, we want the film for people to resonate with it and to resonate with the story. And we built a film that we tried that would speak to people about these issues. And I think people are feeling spoken to, and that this is a film that can kind of be a conversation starter in various ways. So I think it’s been lovely to see the support of everyone for the film, and we’re hoping to be able to kind of bring it to that national level and try and get it talked about.
David Cutler-Kruetz:
I feel like I’m 60 messages deep…behind at all times. And I’m the kind of person who goes out on a trip and I’ll come home and I’ll get like two messages…all the messages will just be from Sam. And then I wake up and it’s just like, “Oh, I can’t even handle this.” Fun. Very lovely.
Sam Cutler-Kruetz:
And great to have everyone’s support. And it’s been, again, a whirlwind for parts of it. The craziness of the campaign. But it’s been fun. It’s been fun. It’s been validating that people resonate with it. The Academy’s a crazy, insane body of people who think your work is worthy in various ways. So that’s exciting.
Ben Miller:
I imagine you’re prepping already. You got Hugo Boss on one line, you got the other guys on the other line trying to figure out what you’re going to wear, what your red carpet looks are going to be like.
David Cutler-Kruetz:
No, it’s just funny. I feel like we’ve gotten that question quite a few times and we’re so…our heads are not there.
Sam Cutler-Kruetz:
Mostly from our parents, to be fair. I don’t think I own a collared shirt like in real life. So it’s funny to like go to, to try and go to an award ceremony. Cause I don’t own a collared shirt or a suit or a blazer.
David Cutler-Kruetz:
So do they accept onesies?
Sam Cutler-Kruetz:
I can’t wear my jeans, so I gotta figure out something. But we’re working on it.
Ben Miller:
Especially just being guys, you just be like, “Okay, am I going to be as boring as humanly possible and just like not stand out? Or am I going to take a risk?” And then all of a sudden I’m going to be on blogs the next day and be like…”Look at this guy”
Sam Cutler-Kruetz:
I mean, that’s Anna Wintour calling me.
Ben Miller:
All jokes aside, you obviously have this big step to the fact of recognition, and now people know who you guys are, and people are itching to talk to you. Movers and shakers might have been in touch maybe in the last four days, or maybe it was before that. But does your mind automatically go there and you’re like, man, now we can imagine the films we get to make now?
David Cutler-Kruetz:
I think it’s certainly been…it felt like a wonderful piece of continued support for the work that we want to do. We had the amazing opportunity of one of our other films won South by Southwest this past year. Yeah, our film Trapped, which isn’t out yet. So hopefully that’ll be coming through the circuit. But you know, I think that’s been helpful. It’s felt like we’ve been able to kind of build upon that and take all of that and use that momentum to continue to tell larger stories that we want to tell.
Sam Cutler-Kruetz:
So that’s super exciting. I guess. I think I think for us, I guess we’re here. We like the marathon, you know what I mean? And so if people want to wave flags on the sideline and cheer, blow horns, wave up, wave banners. Like, that’s lovely. But I think we like running, you know? And so we’re like mile three of a very long, a very long race. So I think both of us are stoked to keep the legs pumping and kind of keep ourselves turning forward. And I don’t know, I guess, yeah, it’s lovely to have the recognition, but it’s also just exciting because it allows us to run more and that’s what we like to do.
Ben Miller:
That’s a, that’s a perfect analogy. That’s awesome. Just like you said, you like to run and this is letting us run more. I also think…good foresight on your guy’s part that people can actually watch it. It’s very available and I think that’s important for people to actually be able to see it. So, congratulations once again, and the best of luck to you on March 2nd. I’ll be rooting for you guys.
Sam Culter-Kruetz:
Thanks, Ben. Appreciate it.
